Ghana TV3 Interview, Part 1
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham Kabbani
6 March 2010 Accra, Ghana
Interviewer:
Mawlana Jalaluddin Rumi says, "For the elect love is a tremendous Eternal light. For the common people, love is a form of sensuality." Now today on this show, I have a very special guest coming all the way from the United States of America, a Muslim shaykh by the name, Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani. Now, this is not your ordinary Muslim personality, this is as special Muslim personality we are hosting today on TV3 `Iqra, live from Accra.
Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani is a prominent scholar of mainstream, traditional Islam. He spent his life spreading the teachings of peace, tolerance, respect and love, the message of Islam throughout the world. In the United States of America for the last 20 years, Shaykh Kabbani has continued to disseminate the light and peace of Islam's spiritual dimension to people of every background, ethnicity, race and belief.
Shaykh, as-salaamu `alaykum.
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
Interviewer:
It is an honor for us on TV3, particularly on `Iqra, to have you on the show today.
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
Thank you very much. I like that number, three, it is a witr number.
Interviewer:
Thank you very much. I started to introduce the show with a message of love and, coincidentally, you have been spreading the message of peace, tolerance, respect and love all over. One might get a little bit worried or confused, are you teaching anything different from what is really supposed to be taught in Islamic jurisdiction?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
A`oodhu billahi min ash-Shaytaani 'r-rajeem. Bismillahi 'r-Rahmaani 'r-Raheem.
قُلْ إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
Qul in kuntum tuhibboonallaha fa 'ttabi`oonee yuhbibkumullahu wa yaghfir lakum dhunoobakum w 'Allahu Ghafoorun Raheem.
Say, “If you love Allah, follow me! Allah will love you and forgive you your sins, for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (3:31)
So following the footsteps of Prophet (s) leads to Allah's love. Allah mentioned it in Holy Qur'an, 'If you love Allah, follow Muhammad (s), Allah will love you." So love of Heaven is not love of dunya, it is a completely different dimension. So we are urging people to drop--a little bit, not too much--the love of dunya and give some time to the love of Allah (swt), to the love of aakhirah and love of Prophet (s).
Interviewer:
You are the U.S. leader of the Naqshbandi-Haqqani Sufi Order; now what is the "Naqshbandi Sufi Order"?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
What is the Tijani Sufi Order? What is the Qadiri Sufi Order? What is the Muridiyyah Sufi Order? What is the Samaniyya Sufi Order? What is the Shadhiliyah Sufi Order? In the Subcontinent, what is the Chishtiyya Sufi Order? It is not something different, but it goes back to the university, if we can call it that in modern terms, to the head of that university who established that school and that student teaching them in Bukhara. So Muhammad Baha`uddin Naqshband established a big school in Bukhara a thousand years ago for students who came from abroad to study Islam, so it was called the "Naqshbandi School," after him. As we say, who graduated from al-Azhar is "Azhari," or, "he is from a Saudi background," or "Harvard background," so it is the name of the school and we got that name from the one that disseminated this kind of knowledge.
Interviewer:
Now, in Islam some Muslims are of the opinion that practicing in the Sufi order is sometimes not well understood, so we have quite a few Muslims who see the Sufis in a different light. What is a "Sufi Muslim"?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
Those who want to play with fire can play with fire with any small issue. Sufism is nothing else except tazkiyyat un-nafs. It is still the term tasawwuf, and the first person to bring that was Abu Muhammad Hisham al-Madani, a Sufi in 125 Hijri. He brought that term in order for people to understand because it is stated that tasawwuf goes back to saafin; "saaf" means ritually pure, or from soof, the wool clothes they wore in the desert in the time of Prophet (s) in Hijaaz. They used this cloth and went to the desert, worshiping Allah (swt) as Prophet (s) was worshiping. So this is the "purification of the self," nothing else. It is self-realization, like Prophet's (s) self-realization of his Lord; he wanted to understand the situation he was living in and to worship the One Who is the Creator.
Tasawwuf will guide you through the message of Islam, first through the five pillars and then you may go beyond that. I am so surprised in the west, not in Africa, that they only speak of the five pillars of Islam. When you ask, "What is Islam?" they say, "The five pillars." OK, that is the first level, but what about the second level which is imaan, belief? And where is the third level:
وَإِنَّكَ لَعَلى خُلُقٍ عَظِيمٍ
wa innaka la-`alaa khuluqin `azheemVerily You are of tremendous high character. (68:4)
Maqam al-`Ihsan, the state of moral excellence? So this moral excellence is what we call Tazkiyat un-Nafs, "Purification of the Self" as mentioned in Holy Qur'an, and what we call tasawwuf.
It is terminology being used after the time of the Prophet (s); it is a change in terminology, just as today, terms of many other knowledges in Islam as practiced before have been changed. Like the Holy Qur'an came with how many different qira`ah? From seven up to fourteen. So if someone from the Middle East hears someone from Africa or Morocco, he might see some changes and he might say, "O this man is making some mistakes in Holy Qur'an," but he is not, only it is a different dialect. Also the terms in Arabic change according to different tribes, because Qur'an came to different tribes. That is why it is not something different. Maqam al-Ihsan, the State of Moral Excellence, teaches you to worship Allah (swt) better. Like when a person says, Allahu akbar and enters the prayer, can anyone tell me that his heart is not going out from the prayer and thinking about his bank account, his car, his wife, and his children? Maqam al-Ihsan teaches one how to concentrate and zoom in, this is a new word we are using today, "zoom in," to concentrate more, taffakkur.
Inteviewer:
Shaykh, where were you born?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
I was born in Lebanon from a very distinguished family, with uncles who were high official religious figures in Lebanon and the Middle East.
Interviewer:
Did you grow up in a very religious or Sufi-practicing family, or were you introduced to Sufism?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
No. My uncle was the head of the `ulama of Lebanon. At that time everyone went to al-Azhar in Egypt. It was normal to study Sufism and take the hand of a shaykh, as today there is the national chief imaam. Everyone knows he is Tijani, and they take his hand and listen to what he says; they take his tariqah, the Tijani Order, and it doesn't mean they are not Muslims. My uncles were of that high caliber of Muslim religious leaders. I grew up in that environment where my one of my uncles was the chief imaam and he was teaching the four schools of thought to scholars from around the world. I would see in his associations 150-200 scholars from around the world. One day he would teach one madhab, one day another madhhab and so on, and there were Naqshbandis coming from a shaykh in al-Azhar University.
Interviewer:
This man is a very special man, he holds so many positions, but let me mention a few: the U.S. leader of the Naqshandi-Haqqani Sufi Order; the chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America; chairman of As-Sunnah Foundation of America; chairman of Kamilat Muslim Women's Organization; president of The Muslim Magazine; co-chair of Council of Muslim Leadership; advisor to Unity One, an organization devoted to ending gun violence, which is very important; advisor Human Rights Council USA, for supporting the establishment of human rights and freedom, among so many other things; co-founder of Sufi Muslim Council of U.K, and so many things. How do you manage all these positions?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
You sound like my wife, she complains a lot! (laughter) Alhamdulillah we have a lot of very good volunteers who are assisting in that. They have a good education and can support themselves. They have some revenue that comes to them, so they are able to go around and do this work with me, so I depend a lot on them.
Interviewer:
I saw your profile earlier this week including some photographs with President Bush, President Barak Obama and so many prominent personalities in the world. Four weeks ago you were with Prince Charles of England, what did you talk about with Prince Charles?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
That is a long story that goes back to years of knowing each other. I met with him several times on many occasions. I met him when I delivered a speech on modernity in his academy in London, and he liked that speech a lot so he invited me to visit him and two years we were visiting each other. He is so interested in Sufism and other religions, but he likes that spiritual realm of understanding the Self and self-realization. So from that point of view, I recommended that we put for him an event and he could visit the Muslim community, and he accepted. We prepared that event, which took one year. It was held in Manchester and we invited all different leaders from the Muslim community in England from various walks of life, different countries and backgrounds, and there were some from Ghana also. That event was in two parts: to meet with him separately, and then the second part to meet the public. He was also singing some qasidahs in Arabic and in English on love of the Prophet (s)! He attended and he was very, very happy with that event.
Interviewer:
In 2008, you were invited to the United Nations to speak about interfaith dialogue towards a global family, a Buddhism-Muslim dialogue. What was the feeling for you stepping in the UN building to deliver a speech to a large audience of diverse beliefs, all gathered in one room?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
I will tell you the truth, I had different feelings with the building of the United Nations, not with the people, but with the entity. It was very hard for political issues and so on, as well as humanitarian issues, but there was one dimension, I don't know why it felt like that. That meeting, specifically between Buddhists and Muslims, we entered and it was very welcoming. We were sitting in a big hall and discussing various issues bringing people together and so on. When I spoke, I quoted many ahadeeth and verses of the Holy Qur'an about the issue of relationships and so on. They wanted to know about zakaat and how we share money. We explained that Islam teaches us about zakaat, Sadaqatu 'l- Jariyah, gifts, as well as ahadiyyah (the Absolute Existent) and hida`a (granted guidance). That was a good meeting, but before that, in 2000, I was invited to a meeting and when we went there it was Salatu 'l-Dhuhr. We entered the hall and were praying, this was before 2001, there was no violence, nothing. So we went to pray and they surrounded us saying, "You cannot pray here, there is no God here, in this building there is no God." So this is another impression from the United Nations; the second impression was a good one, but the first one was not.
Interviewer:
For 25 years you have been representing your teacher, Shaykh Muhammad Nazim Adil al-Haqqani, in the United States of America. Now, Islam has taken different faces in the United States of America, and what it was 40 years ago is not what it is right now. If you walk the streets of America dressed like this, as a Sufi grandmaster, what do people think of you?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
They come and take pictures of me. Many people like the way we dress and they are amazed, so they take pictures. Before September 11, I invited my shaykh to America, and the pilot was so happy seeing this kind of dress that he put him in the cockpit in the pilot's seat, and he put his own hat over the shaykh's and took the shaykh's hat and put it on his head! So I don't see a problem. I go to the U.S. State Department, the White House, the FBI, and all different places, and everyone is (polite and interested). But in general, yes, there is some kind of misunderstanding and this is the duty of the Muslim community to show that Islam is not that different. It was their (Muslims) mistake before, because they were complaining and criticizing. Today you can't find anyone complaining and criticizing in mosques; rather they are shaping and polishing their teachings in order to accommodate themselves better within the United States.
Interviewer:
Shaykh, you are a man of so many accomplishments, to name a few: you founded the Sufilive TV channel which broadcasts Sufi content to hundreds and thousands of people online everyday; you met with His Royal Highness, Prince Charles, to discuss the importance of Sufism in Islam and to promote spirituality for Mankind... so many things I can mention! You met with the UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair, to share a viewpoint on the situation of Islam in the United Kingdom and Europe. Let me go to the next page just to save time. You also are the keynote speaker at the forum on the evolution of Wahhabism at John Hopkins University's Central Asia-Caucasus; you founded an Islamic retreat and healing center on a 200-acre farm in Michigan; established the American branch of Haqqani Foundation; you are also the founder of Kamilat Women's Organization; so many things, I can't just mention all of them! What is different about your approach that makes you welcomed and received by all?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
I don't know. Many people ask this question, even scholars in Los Angeles and different parts of the world. I don't know how this is happening, but it's happening.
Interviewer:
Does it have anything to do with your Sufi background?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
It might, of course. I don't know, but it's something that attracts them and to attract people, you have to feel their feelings. So, God has given me some kind of inner power that I can read their hearts and some of their thoughts, and I can speak what they like to hear. This is how you can attract people and then you can introduce to them to Islam. To introduce them to Islam from the very beginning, after what happened on September 11, is very difficult. But when you bring to them the spiritual dimension of Islam--now we as Muslims go from the five pillars of Islam, six pillars of imaan, and the last pillar of moral excellence. For them we begin with the highest one, teachings of moral excellence, because they like that. Then we go into the belief, then we go into the five pillars, the fasting, praying, etc. So if from the beginning you want to give them the five pillars of Islam, Prophet (s) gave it in 23 years! To ask them, "Don't go to church every Sunday, come and pray five times a day and wake up for Fajr," it is not easy. So we go from the top to the bottom and they like that. If you go from the bottom up to the top, then it is difficult for them. So this is the technique we are using.
Interviewer:
Wonderful. I gather also that you were called back to the United States when this Nigerian thing came up. It seems like authorities out there believe that you have some solutions to some problems, I mean this global chaos that we are facing right now. Let me ask you this very important question: what is Sufism's answer to the global problem that we have right now?
Mawlana Shaykh Hisham:
For everyone to look to himself, you don't have the right to look at others.
من عرف نفسه فقد عرف ربه
He who knows himself knows his Lord.
الفتنه نائمه لعن الله من ايقضها
Al-fitnatu na`imatun la`anallahu man ayqadaha, "Fitnah (discension) is dormant; Allah curses the one who brings it up.” So our duty is to always keep the fitnah down, keep it dormant and do not give it fuel. (TV station break, resumes at Part 2.)
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